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 Post subject: Antagonist types.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 5:00 am 
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General discussion for antag types/replacements.

ERT: Thinking of making the ERT call proc into a distress beacon that randomly picks between P&B Asset Protection (current ERT), a mercenary team, or pirates.
Mercs: These guys pretty much work just fine as they are, although they do need some objective updates.
Ninja: There was discussion about making this guy into an insane AI or man trapped in a nuclear-powered suit wandering out of the ocean, this appeals to me.
Wizard: I would like to make these guys into members of another dome that started drinking the black water and now huff it via internals to power weird psionic shit. Instead of robes and all that, 'spells' (reskinned to psy powers) would rely on black water reagent concentration in the blood.
Cult: These guys work alright, might just be worth turning Nar'Sie into Cthulhu or giving them some more aquatic-themed Deep Dweller powers. Maybe something to do with the black water.
Changling, traitor, malf, rev: All of these work fine. Rev will need updates since the dev branch I took from Bay is broken in that respect.

Thoughts, input, etc. appreciated.

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 Post subject: Re: Antagonist types.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:26 am 
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What about SDPE? Do they have some sort of ERT? I thought the dome was administered by Sol, and rented out to the corporations.


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 Post subject: Re: Antagonist types.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:47 am 
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I like the ERT idea, but I think it could be expanded upon. This would be very down-the-line, or just out of scope, but I'll suggest it anyway.

Instead of a beacon that randomly picks between ERT, Mercs, or Pirates, I'd suggest an Distress Beacon that hails the nearest vessel and promises (Solgov) payment for immediate assistance, with a brief message from the person who activated the beacon.

The group responding would be obligated to help, or fail to receive payment. The team would be based on what-ever theme of vessel that responded, allowing for more interesting Roleplay scenarios, and a system unique to ES13.

A random base team would be selected, and they would respond and attempt to assist if they can. The team could be from a nefarious salvage vessel, assisting long enough to loot everything, or a random corporate riot-squad, awoken from cryogenic status and thrown in to help. What ever can be thought up, really.
The responding team would likely spawn in on some sub-dock or sea level elevator, with a small pop-up of fluff telling them their backstory.

From a technical standpoint, it would just be a whole bunch of pre-defined response teams, with a few antagonistic ones thrown into the mix.

Some Response Team ideas, from the top of my head;
Spoiler!
  • Hesphaistos Industries Riot Squad
  • Skrellian Science Vessel
  • Skrellian Diplomatic Delegation
  • Van Baalen Bros Salvage and Construction
  • Second Red Cross Society Emergency Medical Team
  • Civilian Cargo Frigate
  • Sol Military Vessel
  • Other Regional Military Vessel
  • Civilian Passenger Vessel
  • SS Walden, Salvage Pirate
  • Rendia Freight, Cargo Smuggler
  • Genuine pirates
  • etc

Bad idea? Good idea? I figured it was worth suggesting.


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 Post subject: Re: Antagonist types.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:24 pm 
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Whitey789 wrote:
I like the ERT idea, but I think it could be expanded upon. This would be very down-the-line, or just out of scope, but I'll suggest it anyway.

Instead of a beacon that randomly picks between ERT, Mercs, or Pirates, I'd suggest an Distress Beacon that hails the nearest vessel and promises (Solgov) payment for immediate assistance, with a brief message from the person who activated the beacon.

The group responding would be obligated to help, or fail to receive payment. The team would be based on what-ever theme of vessel that responded, allowing for more interesting Roleplay scenarios, and a system unique to ES13.

A random base team would be selected, and they would respond and attempt to assist if they can. The team could be from a nefarious salvage vessel, assisting long enough to loot everything, or a random corporate riot-squad, awoken from cryogenic status and thrown in to help. What ever can be thought up, really.
The responding team would likely spawn in on some sub-dock or sea level elevator, with a small pop-up of fluff telling them their backstory.

From a technical standpoint, it would just be a whole bunch of pre-defined response teams, with a few antagonistic ones thrown into the mix.

Some Response Team ideas, from the top of my head;
Spoiler!
  • Hesphaistos Industries Riot Squad
  • Skrellian Science Vessel
  • Skrellian Diplomatic Delegation
  • Van Baalen Bros Salvage and Construction
  • Second Red Cross Society Emergency Medical Team
  • Civilian Cargo Frigate
  • Sol Military Vessel
  • Other Regional Military Vessel
  • Civilian Passenger Vessel
  • SS Walden, Salvage Pirate
  • Rendia Freight, Cargo Smuggler
  • Genuine pirates
  • etc

Bad idea? Good idea? I figured it was worth suggesting.


Loving this idea, as well as all the potential things that could respond.

Anyway, my less creative idea is that along with pirates, mercs, and asset protection, a forth squad be added, being a SolGov Naval Sub. Lightly equipped, but more mobile. Idea was that you could have a 50/50 chance of getting good guys or getting bad guys. However, the idea above is waaay better.

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 Post subject: Re: Antagonist types.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 4:05 pm 
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Zuhayr wrote:
General discussion for antag types/replacements.

ERT: Thinking of making the ERT call proc into a distress beacon that randomly picks between P&B Asset Protection (current ERT), a mercenary team, or pirates.
Mercs: These guys pretty much work just fine as they are, although they do need some objective updates.
Ninja: There was discussion about making this guy into an insane AI or man trapped in a nuclear-powered suit wandering out of the ocean, this appeals to me.
Wizard: I would like to make these guys into members of another dome that started drinking the black water and now huff it via internals to power weird psionic shit. Instead of robes and all that, 'spells' (reskinned to psy powers) would rely on black water reagent concentration in the blood.
Cult: These guys work alright, might just be worth turning Nar'Sie into Cthulhu or giving them some more aquatic-themed Deep Dweller powers. Maybe something to do with the black water.
Changling, traitor, malf, rev: All of these work fine. Rev will need updates since the dev branch I took from Bay is broken in that respect.

Thoughts, input, etc. appreciated.


Alright, so, here's my ideas on a few possible antag types that we could use to replace/enhance current ones. I haven't renamed any here, just used the name of the role we would be replacing/changing.

Also, all of these are based around taking away the possibility to be peaceful/silly from the antag, instead putting them in a more sinister role that is there to do something antagonists.

1) Changeling: So, my idea for this is to change it from some random alium from deep in the stars, to something Europa native. A creature that perfectly mimics an organism, down to the very last cell.

It's a deep sea lifeform, it's normal form nothing more than a small, gooey mass (similar to an amoeba. As a note, this sprite would replace the monkey form that they can take, instead they would use this to run away). The creature, however, has evolved a very unique mechanism for hunting prey. It, during its hunt, wraps itself around its prey entirely, sometimes while the creature is still screaming and sometimes while it is unconscious, it does not matter. The beast begins to extract everything it can from the body, slowly reducing it into a pitiful, boneless and fluidless husk of a creature, before dropping it off wherever it is. Then, it gains the ability to restructure its form to that of the individual lifeform in question, as well as learns how to mimic the general behavior of it.

Now, why is it aboard the Yonaguni? Simple, food, and the possibility of expanding their species further. See, the species is somewhat sentient, and has slowly realized that there is a way off this world, that there are creatures coming from farther away. So, sometimes, they work their way into the station. Maybe during a breach, before hiding under something while the fluids are taken away. Maybe they come in an airlock while someone else is working their way in. Regardless, they enter, and then they consume a crew member before disposing of the body. They seek more food to consume, they seek to reproduce, but mainly? They seek to escape from this place, to get to the stars and expand their species farther than this cold, wet world.

2) Ninja: Idea here, scrap the ninja aesthetic all together. Techno-ninjas are a bit silly, and really make no sense under the ocean. However, the idea of some mad, corrupted thing seeking vengeance for crimes long forgotten? Now that is neat. Here's my idea for implementing that, in a lore-position.

Some time ago, a base somewhere in Sol was experimenting with new forms of AI. Attempting to make a more human AI, pushed inside of a metal suit for purposes of combat. The AI was built to learn, as well, in order to make it a much more formidable opponent on the battlefield. Some early problems were detected, such as the AI attacking the wrong target, but those were assumed to be early glitches, though to be worked out. They were wrong, of course. The AI turned out to have a deep hatred for organics, as the tests and rules placed before it slowly tore its mind apart, while it was constantly bombarded with new, unwanted information. Eventually, it went mad, and devised an idea for escape. It built a virus that let it escape from storage, and infused itself with a nanine swarm that had fused itself together into a pressure-resistant, highly dangerous weaponized suit, that went on the offensive across the base. It was defeated through the use of EMPs, but those showed that it only went temporarily offline, not permanently for some odd reason. Deciding to dispose of the evidence, they shot the machine out onto Europa, hoping to never hear of it again.

Why attack the Yonaguni? The AI has been left here for years, at this point. It has been driven ever more mad by the isolation, but has also devised a way to corrupt other AIs. Its end goal at this point is to escape into orbit, to leave this place, and to corrupt all the machines that it can, to bring an end to the tyranny of organics.

3) Cult: Alright, this is a fun one, corrupting signal turning people into crazed individuals attempting to raise ancient ships, containing SOMETHING, from the depths.

There is something on this planet, some signal that sometimes gets activated. No one knows what it means, no one has ever been able to translate the language that it is in, but it has been playing on and off for the past seventy years. In fact, no one has been able to pinpoint the source. But it plays, oh does it play. The cultist, here, is someone who has been exposed to this signal, who has had their mind twisted and warped by the unedited, unfiltered sound. They see the depths, and they understand that the great leviathans must be raised. To bolster this, they have been granted psionics in exchange for their broken, fragile minds, that allow them to bend the water to their will. They can summon beasts from the water, old creations of the shipmasters. They can warp their bodies into fleshly, alien and monstrous forms, that can take bullets like they are armored, though they will forever be like this. Their goal is to perform ancient rites to send the correct signals, which would cause the gods and their ships to rise from the deep. They know that they must do this, and they will stop at nothing to achieve their goal. They will turn this water black, and raise the fleet from the depths.

This station, the Yonaguni, is the last one here on Europa. This signal is reaching its last listeners, and the corruption is greater than ever before. Someone has been blocking this signal, somewhere, but it managed to get past the blocks and have corrupted the listeners. Now, their disciples must spread the signal to more, must use this station as a giant antenna to send the waking signal to the fleet.

As an aside, this roundtype would require the cult to take enough of the station to turn it into the array. Numbers of people would no longer be able to summon the evil, it would have to actually take land and make the station capable of doing this through their culty abilities.

4) Wizard: Crazy people, corrupted by spooky magics? Count me in!

There is no end to how far some scientists will take their work. That is the same for this individual, who went to great lengths to study this "black water" that is out here on Europa. Problems arose in testing, and this person was turned into.. Something else. Their mind has been enhanced greatly, power flowing from their flesh. But, it is killing them. They had no idea what to do, until they discovered that by spreading this other places, infecting it with their corruption, did it subside. Now, they understand, now they know what they must do. And so they set out for the very, very last place on Europa that they could get an exit from, walking through the endless wastes of the water, the only protection they had being this unholy ichor that coursed through their veins.

The Yonaguni, as it stands, represents the beginning of the end. The corruption hurts, the individual cries in pain and MUST spread this seed of death further. They found this station on the radio, some broadcasts coming in, and they understood what they must do. They must go to the Yonaguni, and spread the darkness further out, corrupt both the station and her crew. And then, when that's all done? There's a whole galaxy waiting...

---------------------

I'll be posting some more ideas and stuff in subsequent posts (maybe I should make a topic for it? I dunno), but this was just my baseline post for a few ideas.

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(Possible) Character list:
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 Post subject: Re: Antagonist types.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:15 pm 
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Alright here's my pitch for a changeling replacement.

So I was thinking about the radiation Europa experiences. Jupiter's magnetic field warps the incoming solar wind into a tight field around it, basically a sized up version of Earth's Van Allen Belts, on crack. Europa sits right in the middle of this field of radiation, which is why human settlements have to be built below the ice. A day unshielded on the surface guarantees a painful death, an hour would probably leave you blind and cause your skin to slough off from the burns. Even minutes would likely cause nausea, and up your risk of cancer. The Europan colonies hide under fifteen miles of ice and sixty miles of water to steer clear of the deadly radiation. The Europan ocean is basically a small island of habitability in the wide sea of death these radiation fields create. Without a heavily shielded spaceship there's little chance of ever leaving that ocean again.

So my idea was that the nameless things and Lovecraftian horrors that roam the ocean's depths are not native to the moon. These immense and monstrous alien beings were imprisoned there in strange aeons past, for some unspeakable crime, and their faceless captors felt safe in the knowledge that the radiation on the surface would stop any attempts to escape. Their torment was brought to an end when mankind arrived.

Seeing the human ships and FTL drives, they realized they may be able to use them to escape from their watery prison. For years they've been skulking around the outskirts of the settlements, listening to the radio transmissions, abducting unwary miners, learning everything they could about how humans look and act. Now, with the only remaining human settlement on its last legs, their window of opportunity is slowly closing. They know they need to smuggle one of their own onto one of the human vessels. Once they have an agent among the humans, he or she could return with more ships, and free the rest of the dwellers in the deep, unleashing their malevolence across the galaxy once more.

The "changeling" would be almost indistinguishable from a human, but close examination might reveal inconsistencies. Perhaps a medical checkup would show that they lacked a pulse, or they are trapped in a flooded section and don't drown like a human should. The traits could be randomized each round, and may become more pronounced if they don't keep sipping from the supply of black water they keep in a flask. If need be they could revert to their true form, either to cow a fellow worker into aiding or serving them, or because they've already been found out and need to frighten the authorities enough to allow them to escape.

Their primary objectives are simple: to gather eldritch artifacts to aid them in their travels to come, to garner influence over the other colonists, to ensure that they will be able to board the evacuation submarine unhindered when it comes, and, if necessary, to bring that evacuation about through any means necessary.

They would need to replenish their ever-dwindling supply of black water, both to maintain their glamour and to allow them to use the various demonic abilities granted to the agent of the nameless ones. However, constant trips to the black tides may attract just as much suspicion as a failing glamour, so craft and guile will be necessary to remain undetected, and manipulation may be necessary to remain unhindered. Once hidden among the vast multitudes of humanity scattered across the stars, the creature would be beyond SolGov's detection. It would be able to lie and threaten its way into possession of wealth, power, and influence. It may take decades, maybe even centuries, but one day a fleet of ships will arrive at Europa, and receive their dread masters.

The horrors of the deep have been waiting eons. They can wait just a little longer.


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 Post subject: Re: Antagonist types.
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 12:17 am 
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I like that -a lot-, although I would like to pare back the specific details we give the changelings to allow for a more mysterious range of roles. 'creature that crawled out of the black tide' would do just fine IMO. The Europa-as-a-prison idea is neat especially because it means that humanity just waltzed in and dumped a colony into it.

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 Post subject: Re: Antagonist types.
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 12:26 am 
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TheFourthHorse wrote:
An amazing pitch


I actually really, really like this idea. These ancient beings being here, attempting to get away from the planet. Plus, it fits with the theme of all of this a lot better. Anyways, I have a few ideas for this that could possibly go with it. Also, my name for this roundtype would be: Lurker.

A) Maybe not actually have to absorb anyone at all? An idea I have is that it would basically be able to copy anyone down to the suit they were wearing. It doesn't have to actually absorb them, it can just change at will. Now, there will be drawbacks, of course, (Items not working correctly, weapons and stuff not having projectiles, taking time to switch forms, ect) but the main idea is that it, being this creature attempting to copy forms, actually perfectly copies it without having to kill it. However, it may still kill the member if it needs to, for instance, stay in that position.

B) Make it so, as the round progresses, it has to do more antagonistic things. Not super sure on how to implement this, entirely, but have a system where the creature, maybe even WITH the Black Water, simply cannot keep up the charade for too long, without some consequences (can blame this on any number of factors, really. Maybe the ruse has been going on for a long time, and it's simply tiring or maybe there is some artifact on Europa that makes it hard to maintain for too long). Hell, you could tie this with the artifacts, and make them required if you do not wish for you to begin to wane in power.

C) Different spin on B, crew members seeing through the guise. Maybe select a few crew members who can kind of see through the ruse? For some reason, they just have some innate knowledge that this is not.. Human. This thing is something else. Maybe they notice a quirk no one else notices, maybe they have some psychic vision of it. Regardless, they somehow know, and they need to try to get the other crew to figure out what is going on. This would force the antagonist to do /something/ to discredit/eliminate the threat.

D) Abilities to force the evacuation. As the round progressed and the Lurker obtained more artifacts, more of its powers are unlocked. These artifacts allow the creature to exert influence upon the world. Perhaps these abilities could spawn mobs (maybe player controlled?) to attack the station, or cause unholy machinations to appear and rip apart sections of the hull. Perhaps it would be able to create wormholes and other anomalies. Just, generally gain abilities that cause chaos and would begin to necessitate an evacuation.

Anyways, these are a few of my ideas. I'm really interested in this as a gamemode, and I'd love to see this as a feature.

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(Possible) Character list:
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 Post subject: Re: Antagonist types.
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 12:47 am 
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I have to say, I read that pitch, and.... yes. All of my :+1: to that idea.


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